City Kids Day Care Chain Charges Mom MORE Money to Watch Breastfed Infant
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Friday, February 23, 2007
Now if this one won't get your feathers ruffled, I don't know what will. It's about ten times more important that we spread the word on this than it was to spread the word about the Pork incident ladies, so please help me out.Here's the deal...
There's a mother named Robin Neorr here in the Columbus area. After her daughter was born late last year and she went back to work, she enrolled her daughter in one of the City Kids Day care in downtown Columbus.
Robin was told that she would need to pay an extra $50 per WEEK because her 3 month old daughter is breastfed. You read that right, an extra $50 a week to feed that little girl the best food available for her.
Why?
Well, Robin was given several reasons.
She was told that her milk was a hazardous body fluid that had to be kept separate from all other food. As such, the day care center kept the prepared bottles of breast milk in a separate refrigerator in the director's office. (They even labeled it with a "bio-hazard" sticker, apparently confusing breast milk with, I don't know...uranium?) They also claimed that they would have to purchase a separate warming pot for heating up the breast milk. In other words, they had to go through SOOO much extra trouble that they would have to charge her an extra fee.
What was their reasoning for needing all this extra fuss over breastmilk? Well, Robin was never really able to find out the answer to that question.
The Centers for Disease Control does NOT consider breast milk to be a fluid that requires "special precautions." The Ohio Department of Health also does not consider breast milk to require any special handling. In fact, when I searched the Ohio Administrative Code, I stumbled across Chapter 12, which covers the Rules for Licensed Child Care Centers. I found it VERY interesting to read the section on "Infant formula and food."
Here are a few snippets from it...
Center policies and practices shall support parent preferences in infant feeding, including breast feeding and introduction of solid foods as long as developmentally appropriate and not detrimental to the health of the child.
Infants shall be served food in conformity with dated written instructions from the parent or guardian or physician. The instructions shall include amounts of food, type of food, and feeding times and be updated as needed based upon the child's needs and parent's instructions.
Now, it gets more interesting if you keep digging. Here's what it says about the requirements for day care centers as they handle bottles of breast milk.
If breast milk is provided by the parent or guardian, it shall be labeled with the child's name and the date of receipt and immediately refrigerated or frozen. Refrigerated breast milk shall not be stored for more than twenty-four hours. Breast milk shall be kept frozen no more than two weeks.
and...
If formula or breast milk is to be warmed, bottles shall be placed in a container of hot (not boiling) water or be placed in a commercial bottle warmer. The container of water shall be emptied and cleaned each day. The bottle shall be shaken well, and the milk temperature tested before feeding. Frozen breast milk shall be thawed under cold running water or in the refrigerator.
and...
The unused portion of formula, breast milk or food remaining in a container from which the infant has been directly fed, shall not be reheated or served again.
Now, that doesn't really seem so tough does it? Take a gander at what's required for the handling of formula...
Bottles prepared at center: when infant formula is prepared by the center, it shall be prepared in conformity with written instructions from the parent or guardian, or physician. All powdered or concentrated formula shall be prepared according to the manufacturers' instructions unless written instructions from a physician or an advance practice nurse certified to prescribe medication are on file at the center.
and...
The center shall clean and disinfect all counter surfaces and equipment needed to prepare the formula. All equipment shall be washed in a dishwasher or scrubbed with hot water containing soap, and be thoroughly rinsed. Equipment not washed in a dishwasher shall be boiled for five minutes or more just prior to filling bottles. Handwashing facilities shall not be used for formula or food preparation or for rinsing or washing dishes and bottles. Handwashing facilities shall not be used for formula or food preparation, or for washing dishes and bottles or rinsing for reuse.
and...
Open containers of ready to feed and concentrated formula shall be covered, dated and refrigerated. Prepared formula and food shall be discarded if not used within twenty-four hours.
and...
Any formula or food to be stored at the center for any period of time, whether prepared by the parent or guardian or the center, shall be labeled with the child's name and date of preparation and shall be used only for the intended child.
and...
Until used, all formula or food shall be refrigerated immediately after preparation or upon arrival if prepared by the parent or guardian. Formula or food that is commercially prepared may not be required to be refrigerated until after opening. Formula and food shall be stored no longer than twenty-four hours.
Now tell me...which one do YOU think requires more work?
Exactly.
Here's where it gets even more interesting. One of the posters on the AP Village discussion forum called City Kids to ask about enrolling their own child. According to her post, here's what she was told:
"Well, I have to see, I think there is a new policy about breastmilk. We might charge extra or maybe we aren't taking them any more. It's nothing with me or the director but the owner has a problem with breastmilk."
When asked by the caller if they were serious she stated that "all day care centers are going to this policy soon."
Yeah, can you even believe it?
Now Ohio does have legislation giving moms legal protection when they breastfeed in public but it currently has no laws on the books in regards to the use of breast milk in day care centers. In fact, only the state of Louisiana has a law (House Bill 233) making it illegal for day care centers to discriminate against breastfed children.
Robin understandably wanted to avoid negative press while her daughter was still being cared for at the center. However, her daughter's last day was Tuesday and Robin is now on a crusade to not only spread the word about this day care center that has chosen to discriminate against breastfed children but also to push for new Ohio legislation that would keep this same situation from happening to other breastfeeding moms.
So, what do we need you to do?
First, help spread the word. It took all of two days for the National Pork Board to change their course when faced with the onslaught of phone calls and emails from the Lactivist community. If we can mobilize to protect one web site then we sure as heck can mobilize to show day care centers that we will not stand for this type of discrimination against breastfed babies. So please, blog the article, post it in your favorite discussion forums, get the word out.
Second, make your voice heard with the parties involved. Patricia Elam has owned and operated the downtown Columbus and Hilliard City Kids centers since 1989. If you'd like to contact her to let her know what you think of her center's policies, you can email City Kids at citykidsdaycar@aol.com or you can call either of their centers at (614) 464-1411, or (614)777-4320.
If you are a Central Ohio mom and would be on board for a potential nurse-in at City Kids Daycare, please drop me an email so that I can start building a contact list. If you are a mom anywhere in Ohio, please give serious thought to contacting your local representatives and your state senators about the need to push through legislation that would protect breastfed children.
If you are a lawyer or know one that might be interested in taking on a civil suit against City Kids Day Care, get in touch with me and I'll get you in touch with Robin. If you are a reporter that would like to cover the story, drop me a note and I will DEFINITELY get you in touch with Robin.
We can not let day care centers dictate what we feed our children.
Labels: Lactivism
Unbelievable. Will post on this right away.
Tanya
http://breastfeeding.blog.motherwear.com
he email addy, did you mean to type "daycar"? Just wanted to give you a heads up, if it is indeed "daycare"
Yep, that's how it's listed on their site. I did just send a test email to that address to see if it's a typo though, if so, then I'll fix it, but again, I pulled it straight off their site and just now double checked.
We'll see...(thanks for letting me knwo though!)
I love the way that you help people take action on breastfeeding issues rather than just discussing/complaining about them. It's really inspiring.
Thank you all for your support on this. If there is anything else I can do, anyone else who wants further information please email me...rneorr@yahoo.com
Thanks for helping me spread the word!
You're so good at getting me sputtering! Ignorance is one thing but it sounds more 'phobic' than ignorant(or do they go hand-in-hand?)
I applaud this mom for not just slinking away but speaking up and speaking out. Thanks, Jennifer, for the heads up. We'll do what we can.
What's even more appalling is that according to the day care website, Patricia (the owner) is on the Board of Directors for the Ohio Child Care Association. That's just downright scary.
While I live in CA now, I grew up in Marysville, just outside of Columbus. I will be continually thankful to live in an environment where every day care I visited was super supportive of breastfeeding moms.
I applaude your good work,mama!
You've got my support 100%!
(btw...I have added your rss feed to my google homepage so I see all of your new updates every morning when I log on! :-))
I seriously was at a loss for words. It's a total WTF situation. I sent an e-mail being as respectful as possible even though I really just want to call them fucking idiots.
I blogged about it and sent an e-mail. What jerks.
http://kindofcrunchymama.blogspot.com/2007/02/ohio-daycare-discriminates-against.html
I sent an email to the owner with lots of helpful and informational links. I left out the obscenities, although it wasn't easy. I asked my husband if he's up for a road trip to Columbus for a nurse-in!
Mama in Maryland
I hope this care provider changes its policy after receiving respectful information via all the great lactivists out there!
Just a thought though -- remember that children are involved here in a more prominent way than at your generic starbucks, VS or airplane terminal. That makes this case more serious and more delicate. Just something to keep in mind should a nurse-in be contemplated. Please imagine how you might feel if your child was at this facility and how their care may be affected by a nurse-in.
Oh wow. Has anyone informed them that a breastfed child is less likely to get sick from all the icky baby germs at daycare? None of my babies ever got sick until right after they weaned.
Kelly makes an excellent point. Any nurse-in that we might plan needs to be very mindful of those other children. It's not their fault, or their parent's fault that the owner is clueless.
That said, a nurse-in outside the daycare center wouldn't be feasible for months anyway. It's just too cold.
What I'm thinking in terms if a nurse-in, or a nurse-out, would be something at the capital building as we pushed for new legislation. Something that gets the point across, but remains respectful of the families caught in the line of fire.
K, thanks for the comment. Jenn, my child goes to City Kids, therefore I am posting anonymously. K knows who I am if you want to contact me. My child did not start at city kids until after the age of 2 so I was not aware of this policy.
I am planning on writing a letter to CityKids because I do think this policy is outrageous. But knowing the quality of care my child receives and how by the book this center is (they'll hassle you if your packed lunch doesn't meet the state's nutritional guidelines) I have to assume this is a misguided and not a malicious policy.
I think a nurse-in at the state capital is a fabulous idea. I work across the street and while I'm not curreing nursing I would be happy to come by and lend my support.
Sent her an email... That's just... Wow. That blew me away.
I called the center and told them that they lost any potential business from me because of their discriminatory practice and that I will be contacting my representative to urge them to create Ohio laws that will prevent further discrimination by daycare providers. The director said she has my name and number from their caller ID and will be sure to make a note that I am making that call.
What's sad is that the $50 extra policy is actually a step forward for them I think. In Sept. I was told that they would not keep breastmilk on-site, period. If I wanted to enroll my kids there, I would have to go there each and every time my baby needed to eat w/ a bottle or to BF. I did not enroll my kids. I also have not yet followed up, but fully intend to do so. Ridiculous.
I used your hard work, jennifer, as much of my language in an email to my representative and senator. Thanks for your dedication!
I sent an email, as well. I called it "crap", after typing and deleting "bulls**t". I pointed out that the website brags about the education and creditentials of the founder and the teachers, and yet they are so ignorant of the benefits of breastmilk. I also pointed out the website boasts of the nutritious meals they provide, following guidelines set out by health/nutrition experts, and yet penalized breastfeeding parents for doing the same.
It's complete crap. I can't say"crap" enough times to express just how crappy it is.
Anna, was that a threat when she said she had your caller ID info? Maybe she is just feeling defensive because of all the attention. I hope that she can receive the information and become more informed about breast milk and change some of her policies.
I just sent an email as well. I hope thier inbox is stuffed! Robin, I would like you to know how great it is that you work and breastfeed. I rarely see that, working is the ultimate excuse to give formula and I have so much respect for your decision to stick by the best thing you can do for your baby in the face of convenience and day care adversity. Applause!
Thank you for bringing this to our attention! I have emailed them and blogged about this. And as an Ohio mom I have some letters to write.
FYI:
I emailed all 3 of the local tv stations and included a link to this post.
We'll see what happens.
Thank you so much again for your support. We didn't even think to ask whether or not they accepted Breastmilk back in September of 06 when we signed up. We checked back with them in October to confirm everything and were told that they were not accepting Breastmilk. I honestly didn't see how that was legal, or even possible. I was also told that I could bring the breastmilk in a bottle to my baby but they would not store it. I was eight months pregnant at the time, and we all know how fun that last month of pregnancy can be. I just sort of rolled with it until after the baby was born. When Ceili was born, and I talked to my wonderful amazing lactation consultant about this practice she was outraged! I know there were some phone calls, and at least a complaint to the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services, lo and behold City Kids did now accept breastmilk, but there was a $50 per week charge. So yes, you are right they have made some progress, but the biohazard refridgerator, please...I felt like I was doing something wrong every day I went to daycare, and it's just not right.
Robin, my experience in Sept. 06 was identical. I crossed them off of my list and intended to follow up but have been preoccupied w/ studying for the bar exam (which begins Tuesday so I should not be online now). I also posted above (#17 - I have no account which is my only reason for posting anon.).
I would be more than happy to work with you and others to do something about this after I am done w/ the bar. Also happy to speak w/ media.
Anonymous, can you drop me an email with your contact info? I'm helping Robin pitch this story to the media and would love to be able to offer up contacts of other moms that have dealt with this center.
I'd put a call in to the Pacific Justice Institute, www.pacificjustice.org and I'd call the local news station consumer complaint number too. Good luck!
Did anyone notice that on their website it says that school district buses shuttle kids to and from their center? It sounds like someone should also complain to the school district....
I sent them an email that included the following:
"I'm sure you've been overwhelmed with criticism over your policy, but it is well-deserved. You should not be in the business of infant care if you cannot care for infants whose mothers are feeding them in accordance with American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines."
Robin, have you filed or considered filing a complaint with the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services (or whatever the licensing agency is in Ohio)? I'm in CA, but have worked in licensed daycare programs, and our licensing agency takes parental complaints very seriously, especially when they are in clear violation of the regulations. Good luck! I'm off to call and email the center.
That is horrible! :( I can't believe that people are like that!! Makes my tummy feel sick.
I blogged about this too. It always amazes me how breastfeeding moms/babies are discriminated against. This is ridiculous! I don't live in OH, but you guys do a nurse in...somewhere!!
I thought this was a joke when I first heard about it. I am appalled that it is not! What?! I will definitely send an email!
It's started to hit the news in Columbus. The story was on Newscenter at 6pm as the top story, breif, but it was there. I just got a phone call (I don't have access to a tv right now but yes I am on a computer so I am not entirely out of touch) that they did a longer story during the 10pm hour, and the best part, they contacted city kids and they declined to comment. Seriously, they had no comment. What could they say, "yeah that's right I don't want to take any breastfed babies" I want to get a copy of the story that ran on newscenter (channel 28 in Columbus), but I don't know how? SO if anyone taped it, or knows what I can do to see it I would be forever greatful!
When I was pregnant with our elder son, dh and I called around. We lived in Tulsa, Oklahoma. After ruling out the daycares with no openings, we asked about breastmilk. NONE of them would accept pumped breastmilk.
So we examined our finances and started asking about part time - reasoning that I could nurse him immediately before and after and he'd probably be okay (dh would go to work early and only work half a day, and I would petition to move to the later hours at my job so he would be there tops 3 hours). None of them had a part day option for infants. Sure we could pick him up when we wanted, but we had to pay for full time care. We couldn't afford that if dh was working part time.
So, dh quit his job and became a SAHD. It was a good decision for us, but it really sucks that it wasn't a decision we felt was completely voluntary. In our situation we were faced with SAHD or feed formula.
I used to work at one of the nation's largest "chain" daycare centers - KinderCare learning centers, and they have no such breastmilk policy. Corporate policy at the time was to store breastmilk, marked with the child's name, the date, and the word "breastmilk". We were not allowed to prepare formula onsite, it was to be brought from home prepared. All milk went in the same fridge. Surely if that is good enough for a huge chain like KinderCare, it is good enough for this daycare.
I agree with you that this is appalling that they charge extra for BF babies, I know the benefits of breastfeeding because I have worked in infant and child nutrition research for years. We do studies on maternal diet and breast milk composition. The Biohazard labels are used in our lab when we recieve a breast milk sample. Breast milk is a biohazardous fluid such as blood, tissue and urine or feces because it has the possibility of carrying live infectoius organisms. However something like Uranium is a chemical hazard (it is not of biological origin). therefore, this requiremnt is understandable and goes with standard scientific protocol for storage and labelling of biological materials.
Andrea
I've blogged and e-mailed the center.
Here is the text of the e-mail:
Charging to serve breastmilk is a ridiculous and discriminatory policy. Women get the message that "breastmilk is best" over and over during pregnancy from the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Federal Government, and even formula commercials. The extra effort involved in providing breastmilk is on the part of the mom, not the center provider. The mother provides you with milk that does not need to be mixed or measured. If the CDC and the Ohio Department of Health do not consider breastmilk a bio hazard, neither should you. If one compares the Ohio regulations for handling breastmilk and formula, there is less work involved with breastmilk. Breastmilk has many benefits for the baby and therefore, your center, such as reducing illness. You should be encouraging mothers to provide breastmilk. Childcare centers need to support working moms by serving breastmilk without charging extra fees that make it prohibitively expensive.
http://cairomama.blogspot.com/2007/02/battle-for-breastmilk-in-ohio.html
"The Biohazard labels are used in our lab when we recieve a breast milk sample. Breast milk is a biohazardous fluid such as blood, tissue and urine or feces because it has the possibility of carrying live infectoius organisms."
Well your lab is wrong.
From the CDC Web Site:
Are special precautions needed for handling breast milk?
No special precautions exist for handling expressed human milk, nor does the milk require special labeling. It is not considered a biohazard. The Universal Precautions to prevent the transmission of human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), Hepatitis B virus, and other bloodborne pathogens do not apply to human milk.
In fact, the ONLY time that breast milk must be handled with special precautions is while being processed in a milk bank and guess what...that's to protect the breast milk, not to protect the people handling it.
Robin,
I saw it briefly at 11pm on Channel Six, but missed it on the 10pm news. I haven't seen it show up on the web site yet, but it may, sometimes there's a delay.
I've sent letters to the day care center, the Columbus Chamber of Commerce, the OCCRA, and the National and State organizations that the owner of City Kids claims to be a member of. If I hear back from any of them, I'll post them.
Keep those letters rolling ladies...
That is a disgrace. Thanks for sharing this.
This is taken from the City Kids Daycare "philosophy":
To help students realize the relationship of good health to success and happiness
Hmmmmm...last I read, breastmilk is essential for good health.
Sara
There must be something in the air--I first read about daycare centers refusing breastmilk in a random comment on another blog today.
Then I went over to the Mothering forums to post about it because the woman said it was a national chain. Lo and behold, there's a huge thread there and now this amazing work that you all are doing.
It looks like day care centers have just become the new frontier of lactivism, and I'm wondering if we can start compiling a list of the national chains that currently refuse breastmilk.
It seems to me that we might make the most headway on this issue by focusing on the big national chains on a state by state basis. If they change their policies on breastmilk, it's likely the smaller, independent day care centers will too. And some of the more enterprising centers will quickly realize that advertising themselves as breastfeeding friendly will help generate more business.
I certainly hope that someone files a discrimination case against this center. This is total crap. All the parents who were told by the center that they "would not" accept bfing infants need to band together in some type of formal suit if possible. *Shaking head* I can't believe that a State licensed childcare center can get away with such rubbish.
I came here via Izzy, and am just APPALLED by this (I am a b.f. mom, but even if I wasn't, this is beyond the pale).
I'll certainly spread the word. Thanks for starting this (and, btw--I might just have to get a Milk Jugs t;-))
From the City Kids Website:
Hot, nutritionally balanced lunches are prepared in our kitchen everyday, and snacks are served every morning and afternoon with American Heart Association guidelines in mind."
Snippits from the American Heart Assiciation website:
Breastfeeding linked with lower childhood blood pressure...
Formula feeding is more likely to lead to overfeeding and overweight babies. Excess weight is also associated with higher blood pressure and promotes insulin resistance, which often precedes development of diabetes in adulthood. Breastfeeding may protect against future overweight, Martin said.
If possible, feed breast milk exclusively for the first four to six months and continue breastfeeding until one year of age.
The committee recommends beginning healthy eating in infancy, with more emphasis on breastfeeding and healthy foods.
The new guidelines provide guidance for this age and suggests feeding babies breast milk exclusively for the first four to six months of life, and continue breastfeeding through the first year.
Julia
I was shocked, horrified, and most of all, saddened when I read this news. Thank you for sharing it, and I will definitely spread the word on my blog, and email the owner of the center. If I were to subscribe to her logic, which of course I don't, wouldn't (formula or breast milk) spit up also be a "biohazard"? Do the parents of babies who spit up pay an extra fee? That is no less ludicrous than charging more to care for breastfed babies, who, as you aptly pointed out, actually require "maintenance" when it comes to preparing their bottles. If anything, daycare centers should encourage breastfeeding a.) for the children's overall well being and b.) because breastfed babies get sick less often. ARGH! I'm all fired up!
Thank goodness my child goes to a daycare center that encourages and fosters breastfeeding. Again, thank you for bringing this issue to the forefront.
I'm with EarthyMommies.com & we will also do what we can to spread the word about this ridiculous policy. I'm going to go put a snippet of this on our front page right now. Thanks for posting about this.
Larissa
EM admin
I did a brief post and linked here. My jaw is still not shutting properly. Makes me glad I no longer live in Ohio.
How do you email you? I am in Ohio, not too far from Colombus, and I have a nursing baby. Thanks!
Okay- I have called both centers (and so did my DH) to leave a strongly worded message about changing their policies. I have sent a link to your blog to all 20+ parenting groups I am a member of. And of course... I linked to this story on my blog.
I worked at day cares for years, and never ever have I heard of such disreguard for the health of infants. If they are willing to sacrifice the nutrition of infants for the sake of convenience I shudder to think what else they are willing to sacrifice for their convenience.
Jennifer- Thanks for all your hard work!
They are talking about it on the MSNBC message boards...Most posts are VERY supporting, one person....Hepburn, not so much, It is interesting to see what the logic is on the other side of the story...well I don't know if you can call it logic???
http://boards.msn.com/MSNBCboards/thread.aspx?BoardID=378&ThreadID=212662&BoardsParam=HIPDelay%3d1
As an attorney in Ohio and a breastfeeding mother of almost 4 years now, I can tell you that in May 2005, Governor Taft signed into law an amendment to the Ohio Civil Rights, which protects a women's right to breastfeed. A place cannot ask a lady to leave because she is nursing her child in public..it is an anti-discrimination law, just like you see with regards to Gender, Religion and Sex.
As such, I cannot see why such law would not also be construed to cover a women's right in choice of how to feed her child, either ff or bm while at daycare. As such, I cannot see how charging a women an extra $50 a week due to her preference in giving BM over Formula wouldn't violate this women's rights to nurse her child or the spirit of the law that was enacted.
BTW, the law was signed in late May 2005 and went into effect in late August 2005.
Ok, I am the attorney in Ohio poster...
My recommendation would be to contact the Ohio Civil Rights commission with regards to the Day Care Center's Policy. As I do believe that if a lawsuit would be filed, that the Courts would find that this is potentially a violation of a Women's Right to Breast.
In addition, I would file a complaint with the agency that goes through and inspects day care providers (cannot think of the agency name right now) and I would also file a Complaint with the BBB.
I will see if I can find the Ohio Revised Code Section that deals with the Amendment.
I am about 60-90 minutes away from Columbus, and I have heard of a few attorneys in my area that have handled cases for mothers who have been discriminated against while BF.
The reason I am annon is that I don't have an account here, but I will go see if I can find the Discussion on Mothering has I am a member there.
Another day, another surprise. Perhaps they would benefit from hearing the experiences of women using nurseries in the UK - my daughter started nursery at 14 weeks and did 3 1/2 hours a day - I took her a bottle of expressed milk every day. When she went up to full days (2 days a week at six months) she was eating some solid food, but I also took in two bottles of frozen milk each day. This was never an issue - it was stored in a fridge until required, thawed, warmed, and fed to the baby.
As many other parents have stated, breastfed babies have higher resistance to bugs going around - you'd think nurseries would be happier to have breastfed babies than not!
How ridiculous! What a f*** up nation we live in. What else can people do to make it harder for mothers to continue breastfeeding? Women need more help and less roadblocks like this.
Quoting:
"I am planning on writing a letter to CityKids because I do think this policy is outrageous. But knowing the quality of care my child receives and how by the book this center is (they'll hassle you if your packed lunch doesn't meet the state's nutritional guidelines) I have to assume this is a misguided and not a malicious policy."
I'm sorry to say but I think you are very wrong ~~ you need to check out their licensing page~ MANY violations:
http://www.odjfs.state.oh.us/cdc/Results3.asp?provider_number=000000406955
You can also file a complaint on this site.
Wow... they have a pretty overwhelming amount of non-compliance. It amazes me that centers are allowed to repeat and repeat the same types of licensing violations and nothing is really done. Here are two of the violations that really stand out, especially in light of their issue with breastmilk:
Findings:
During this inspection, the following food preparation items were observed to be in need of cleaning: unclean refrigerator the foil is not covering the rusted shelves which food/milk containers are sitting on top of unclean front/side of the cabinet.
Findings:
During this inspection, it was observed that proper diaper changing procedures were not followed as a staff member placed the child on the floor after a
diaper change then touched a toy without handwashing her hands which
contaminated the toy.
The lists just go on and on...
this is appalling. thanks for bringing it to our attention, jennifer, so we can support this mom and get the word out.
i've emailed them, passed this onto an online AP group, and blogged about it.
Why doesnt the daycare centre charge the formula fed babies parents the extra $50? It is thier babies who need the 'special' milk, which needs 'special' preparation and extra 'special' time to make sure the area it is made in is sterile etc. The bfed baby's milk only needs to be heated and given. No seperate fridge or heating equipment is needed at all, unless they employ illiterate and incompetant staff.
If the daycare centre is worried about mixing up the bottle and feeding it to a ffed baby, it should employ people who can read labels correctly and who take enough time to know which child has to have the EBM. To be perfectly honest, I wouldnt leave my child in a daycare centre which is worried that thier staff are not capable of reading a label, heating a bottle and feeding it to the correct baby.
Do they charge the parents of allergenic babies more? In the case of nut allergy etc, that child would have to have food which is kept completely seperate from every other childs, and they would have to ensure that no other child there was fed or given a lunch that contained nuts either. They would not be allowed to discriminate against that child or thier parents even though alot more care and attention would be needed to prevent cross contamination.
I sent my letter off and will blog about this.
I found this non-compliance to be pretty interesting:
"Findings:
During this inspection, it was observed that extra formula was not available for all infants. Secure a supply of formula and keep it available for occasions when it might be needed."
Because according to the Rules for Licensed Child Care Centers:
"(I)Centers that care for infants shall have available commercially prepared formula to be used in the event that the parent or guardian does not provide a quality of formula sufficient to meet the infants daily requirements."
Wouldn't this SAVE the center money to have a breastfed infant?
I also thought that maybe they were making money on the formula feeders because a lot of daycares participate in the USDA food program and are reimbursed for 2 meals and 1 snack a day, so I asked my friend who is a day care provider if maybe they don't get reimbursed for breastmilk and she said that they just had this brought up at a meeing and they do get reimbursed for both, about $3 a day, I think, and they are not required by the USDA to do anything special with breastmilk. She said she has a link about it, I have to get back to her on that and I will post it here.
~S
I'm aghast. So I emailed the day care provider and wrote a letter to the local newspaper (Columbus Dispatch). I'm not a local (I live in Massachusetts), so they may not be inclined to publish my letter, so I hope some Ohioans will follow suit. My letter to the editor read:
***
To the editor:
I learned today that the City Kids DayCare in Columbus and Hilliard City has a discriminatory policy against breastfeeding mothers and their infants. Recently, according to the Lactivist blog (http://thelactivist.blogspot.com), a mother was charging an extra $50 per week because her baby eats breastmilk, not formula.
Charging mothers who are working very hard to provide their child with the healthiest possible food is inexcusable. It's hard enough to be a working mother. It's harder to pump and store breast milk everyday, but it's worth it for the added health and emotional benefits a nursing relationship offers a child; countless medical studies have proven this. Too many working mothers, however, are discouraged from breastfeeding because of the logistical hurdles of pumping at work. To hear that mothers who use City Kids daycare are also given the additional obstacle of an extra fee for child care is unbelievable.
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Thank you for publicizing this. I can't BELIEVE it is 2007 and we're fighting such fundamental battles to be good moms who also work outside the home. I can't imagine that my mother, a working mom in the mid-1970's, expected that I'd grow up and be fighting battles like this as an adult. I don't want my daughter to be fighting them 30 years from now.
Hi Jennifer - I'm a Columbus mom of 3 (one nursling). Also, my husband is an attorney here in the area and would likely LOVE to hear about this. I'm going to send him the link. Please add me to your list for any local events!
As a father of children at this daycare I applaud City Kids on actively preventing the accidental ingestion of some random mothers breast milk. This has happened in the past and is a cause of great concern for the safety of the other children. If you want to breast feed then breast feed, dont pump it into bottles for others to do the feeding. The benefits of breast feeding go beyond simple nutrition.
"...I applaud City Kids on actively preventing the accidental ingestion of some random mothers breast milk. This has happened in the past and is a cause of great concern for the safety of the other children."
Personally, I wouldn't send my children to a day care center that has trouble reading labels and giving the right bottle to the right child.
You do realize that even some children on formula could be severely harmed if given the wrong bottle of formula? My cousin's children required an elemental formula...any "regular" formula would cause them to get extremely ill, to vomit and have bloody stool.
A responsible day care understands that a child must ALWAYS have the right food given to them. There is no excuse for "mix-ups."
"If you want to breast feed then breast feed, dont pump it into bottles for others to do the feeding."
Interesting...are you saying that only mothers that have the luxury of staying home should be able to provide their child with the best nutrtion possible?
SShisheng:
So, I take it because I am a nursing mother that I am not allowed to work because my child would have to ingest BM through a bottle instead of a breast while I am at work.
I find that your statement regarding feed it through the breast not a bottle to be very appauling and very much in the dark ages and seems to relegate women to the roll of staying home and raising their children and not holding down jobs and assisting in the supporting of their families.
If the daycare follows proper procedures there should be "no accidental" ingestion by someone elses child of my BM. Also, what about a child who is lactose intollerant/allergic to lactose and can only have special formula, what about the day care center "accidentally" feeding that child some other child's formula. Again, IF the daycare is properly following procedures and checking bottles to ensure the right child is receiving them, then IT SHOULDN'T happen.
Bottles of BM, under Administrative Policy, are to be prepared at time of use, not at the begining of the day for formula feed children. The only exception is some parents bring formula in prepared for their children in their own bottles. So, there shouldn't be a means of accidentally giving a non BF child a bottle of BM or even the wrong formula.
Agency law clearly states that the Bottle of BM must be clearly labeled with the Child's name and date the bottle was received.
Jennifer, your post echoed exactly what I was just about to leave in response to the comment from the father who "applauds" the anti-breast milk policy.
Amen, sister.
In Ny state the law states to lable the milk, also see part L.
The daycare also in question has recieved tons of violations another blogger posted a link. They need to be shut down.
417.12 Nutrition
(a) The family day care home must provide plentiful and nutritious snacks to children. The provider must ensure that each child in care for more than four hours a day receives a nutritious meal. Each child in care for more than ten hours a day must receive a minimum of two nutritious meals. Food must be prepared and stored in a safe and sanitary manner and served at appropriate intervals.
(1) If the provider does not furnish meals, there must be adequate supplemental food available in the event that no meal is provided by the parent or if the meal provided by the parent is of inadequate nutritional value.
(2) Homes changing their meal policy must provide adequate notice to parents.
(b) Where meals are furnished by the home, food preferences for personal, religious or medical reasons may be accommodated. If resultant meal patterns or serving sizes will not meet the child's nutritional needs, a medical statement must be obtained documenting the appropriateness of the variation.
(c) Where meals are furnished by the home, the servings must be in portions suitable for the size and age of the children in care. There must be a sufficient amount of food available to children to permit second helpings.
(d) Children must be helped to gain independence in feeding themselves, and should be encouraged to learn acceptable table manners appropriate to their developmental levels.
(e) Sufficient time, based on age and individual needs, must be allowed for meals so that children will not be hurried.
(f) Perishable food, milk and formula must be kept refrigerated.
(g) Safe drinking water must be available to children at all times and must be offered at intervals that are responsive to the needs of the individual children.
(h) Disposable cups and plates may be used if discarded after use. Plastic eating utensils may be used if such utensils are not easily broken by young children and are discarded after use. Styrofoam cups may not be used for infants or toddlers.
(i) Providers must obtain a written statement from the parent of each infant in care setting forth the formula and feeding schedule instructions for the infant.
(j) Where formula is required, such formula may be prepared and provided by the parent, or by the provider when agreed to in writing by the parent.
(k) If more than one child in the home is receiving formula, breast milk or other individualized food items, all containers or bottles must be clearly marked with the child's complete name.
(1) Unused portions of bottles or containers from which children have been spoon-fed must be discarded after each feeding, or placed in a securely tied plastic bag and returned to the parent at the end of the day.
(2) Heating formula, breast milk and other food items for infants in a microwave oven is prohibited.
(l) Every effort must be made to accommodate the needs of a child who is being breast-fed.
(m) Infants six months of age or younger must be held while being bottle-fed. Other infants must be held while being bottle fed until the infant consistently demonstrates the capability of holding the bottle and ingesting an adequate portion of the contents thereof. The propping of bottles is prohibited.
(n) Each infant and toddler must be removed from the crib, playpen or cot and held or placed in an appropriate chair for feeding.
For the father whose children is at City Kids do you also applaud the violations that have occured i.e.
Findings:
During this inspection, the following food preparation items were observed to be in need of cleaning: unclean refrigerator the foil is not covering the rusted shelves which food/milk containers are sitting on top of unclean front/side of the cabinet.
Findings:
During this inspection, it was observed that proper diaper changing procedures were not followed as a staff member placed the child on the floor after a
diaper change then touched a toy without handwashing her hands which
contaminated the toy.
I want to point out that staff who cared for my daughter was was infact great and more than capable of reading my daughters name on a bottle. If you are going to trust a daycare to take care of your child you also need to trust that they will be feeding your child the right bottles. I trusted the staff, and my daughter always received the right bottles. I don't think that the staff workers received an increase in salary for there "special handling" of the breastmilk, and if you are going to charge an extra fee, shouldn't the workers who are doing the "extra work" (which no one really did any extra work IMO) be the ones with the increase in pay, not the owner?
I tried for a month to discuss this policy with the owner before pulling my daughter out. I even went so far as to offer to get an AIDS test and submit the results if that was what she was so worried about. We even offered to buy an refridgerator for them if they thought it was so important to have everything handled seperately. With no response from the owner and no change in sight I wrote a detailed letter as per why I was removing my child, gave them the requested 30 days notice, a copy of the Department of Health and Human Services Blueprint for Action on Breastfeeding and two letters from the CDC. I went so far as to highlight the portions of the letter to show what the government recommends day care centers do to support breastfeeding moms. With my resignation letter I asked her to please go over the information I sent, note the highlighted parts. Did she? I don't know, but please note I went over and above to solve this issue directly with Ms. Elam, who I have to this day never met.
This matter that I thought could simply be handled by talking to her, has made me realize that they problem stems beyond straight forward change on the part of City Kids, we need to change the laws not only in Ohio, but accross the country to make sure Breastfeeding Mothers are not discriminated against. After all Breast is best!
I just read this on another blog and wanted to clarify
"My coworkers and I contacted this daycare and it is true. Moreover, there is only one person at the facility who "handles" the bottles of breastmilk and gives them to the babies. She also works in the office answering the phones. They did not explain what happens when this person is out for the day. I guess the children starve?"
There isn't only one person that handles the breastmilk, my daughter was fed by at least three of the different daycare workers who are in the infant room. So now City Kids doesn't even have there story straight.
Jennifer
I've posted your blogs on the 2006Babies forum and emailed the center.
Please keep us updated on the happenings. This is absolutely ludicris.
Thank you for The Lactivist. It makes me feel good every time I pass on the latest and take action on a cause.
To those worried about their babies accidentally ingesting someone else's breastmilk, my son got sick at day care one day and the only thing that could have happened was that he was either given someone else's bottle of milk-based formula, or he ingested another babies' milk-based formula spit-up from a dirty burp rag. My son was allergic to the milk proteins in formula and whenever we tried to supplement my breastmilk with milk-based formula (when I had to go out of town), he vomitted within an hour of ingesting it. His symptoms the day he got sick at day care were exactly the same. There was no way to prove they gave him the wrong bottle, but it is ridiculous to try to police against accidentally giving a child a bottle of breastmilk by banning it completely when there are so many other ways they could get something that could negatively affect them. You have to trust the day care does things correctly.
Robin - Your original story of the policies of City Kids was unbelievable, but the fact that the owner refused to have any sort of discussion about the policies is even more incredulous. Even if she had no attention of changing her mind, it's just a customer service no-no. Does she not get that many referrals are through word of mouth and that a mother's opinion carries a lot of weight with other mothers?
Absolutely ridiculous! I'll write a post linking to yours. The more people who hear this, the better!
sshisheng
Given your statement:
If you want to breast feed then breast feed, dont pump it into bottles for others to do the feeding. The benefits of breast feeding go beyond simple nutrition.
I assume then that you are a proponent of allowing a mother to stay home, fully paid, for the first 2 years of her child's life? Both the AAP and WHO recommend breastfeeding for a minimum of 2 years. Following your train of thought, if I am to properly nourish my child, I would be unable to be separated from him for those 2 years at feeding times. This would of course mean not working, are you prepared to pay for that salary each year for every new mother?
I find it ridiculous that any fee be assessed for any child in daycare simply because of the type of feeding choices the family has made for that child. As an avid breastfeeder, I would be insulted that my daycare bill would rise approximately $200 a month because I am providing the nourishment God intended for my son.
I would also be more concerned that my son receive a bottle of formula rather than "some random mother's" breastmilk. For children that are severely allergic and require special formula, it is worrisome that this has happened before in this center. Perhaps the staff should be better trained in the fundamentals of reading and labeling.
Response to Erin: LOL!
Sister, it IS crappy! I think you said it best. CRAP!
My daughter attends City Kids. I agree that $50 is too much, though I could see possibly charging say $10 per week. The people at City Kids aren't doing this just because they're evil. They are doing what they believe to be best for everyone. Their policy is better than the places that don't accept breast milk. The two solutions that seem the easiest to me would be one: simply bring in your baby's bottle and never mention what was in them or two: exercise your free choice to use another center. My daughter receives very good care. It's much better than any other place that we've been able to find. While I understand your desire for the best for your children, please grant that to everyone else involved. If your attacks lead to the center closing that would deprive dozens of children with very good care and many excellent, caring staff members of their jobs.
Michael,
Would you feel the same way if they were charging more to care for a Jewish child that kept Kosher? How about a Muslim child that followed the dietary requirements of the Koran?
Those are all dietary 'choices' does that make it ok to charge extra just because they aren't what the majority of people feed their children?
Let's take it further...
What if they want to refuse to care for a Jewish child or that Muslim child? What if they refuse to accept a handicapped child? A black child?
Where does it end?
It's called discrimination and it's NOT ok.
Thank the local health departments. My husband had to attend a blood
borne pathogens training classes for work, and they included breast milk as bio hazard material. The trainer claimed it has the ability pass blood borne illnesses through it. Not sure on the accuracy of the
info.... I know at his work, if a mother pumps, they must store the milk in a separate fridge/freezer that is marked at bio-hazard (and, no there isn't one....), or keep their own cold pack bag.
I do know at child care centers I have worked at, breast milk is warmed in a separate crock pot- that's how we warm multiple bottles at a time, and must be kept in a separate divided container within the fridge. The bottles must be labeled with the child's name and expression date. They can only be used once and within 24 hours.
Usually we used those plastic shoe box sized rubbermaid tubs. Or little plastic baskets for each child.
Ok, I called and there is major discrimination. Parents that breastfeed don't have to pay 50 dollars extra if they come and feed their babies. But if the care providers have to warm the bottle and feed the baby and dispose of the left over "body fluid" they charge 50. So, my question was why do brestfeeders pay 50 for a service given to formula feeders for free. The lady hung up on me.
I wander where they keep the diaper pails. They are for sure a biohazard, are they also in a special room with stickers on them?
>Michael,
>
>Would you feel the same way if >they were charging more to care >for a Jewish child that kept >Kosher? How about a Muslim child >that followed the dietary >requirements of the Koran?
>
>Those are all dietary 'choices' >does that make it ok to charge >extra just because they aren't >what the majority of people feed >their children?
>
>Let's take it further...
>
>What if they want to refuse to >care for a Jewish child or that >Muslim child? What if they refuse >to accept a handicapped child? A >black child?
>
>Where does it end?
>
>It's called discrimination and >it's NOT ok.
>
Jennifer,
City Kids isn't discriminating against anyone, they are just asking for a charge to offset the economic costs involved, though I grant that the charge they are mentioning is too high for what's involved. If my child required Soy Milk instead of Cow's Milk, I wouldn't consider it unreasonable for me to provide it. I think that it blowing it way of proportion by suggesting that they are trying to deny services to anyone. If you look around at the kids and the teachers they are one the most inclusion groups that I've ever seen. I'm proud to have my daughter there.
While I respect the dedication to breast feeding, I'm worried that my daughter and her friends will be the ones to suffer if the center is sued. I have no doubt that the cost of a lawsuit would force a small business like City Center to fold leaving all the children without daycare and all the employees without jobs. If you're really interested in pressing a lawsuit at least sue one of the national chains that won't be destroyed by the costs involved.
Even better than suing and inflicting damage on people, how about a ballot issue. It's fairly simple in Ohio to get a ballot measure then you can get what you want without anyone being hurt. I'd being willing to sign and vote for one.
"City Kids isn't discriminating against anyone, they are just asking for a charge to offset the economic costs involved"
Michael...what economic costs? Breastmilk doesn't cost them anything. It comes to day care in a bottle with the child the same way that any type of formula would. (I assume that CityKids does not mix formula on the premises and that they require parents to send it in premixed in the bottles...)
The only "economic costs" are the ones that they have placed upon themselves with their silly "rules" about the handling of breast milk. There is no precedent for their choice of putting those restrictions in place. They are not required nor even recommended by any of the organizations involved.
It's no different than if they decided that soy formula needed all sorts of special precautions and charged a fee for it. Or if they decided that regular formula required special precautions.
I agree with you that the people that stand to be hurt here are the children and employees. That's part of why both Robin and I agree that any nurse in shoudl NOT be held at City Kids. It's not fair to the children there to have their day upset by such an action.
However, I would imagine that a lawsuit could VERY easily be avoided by changing the center's policies and refunding the excess fees to Robin.
I've honestly yet to see anyone give a valid reason why the center should either charge an excess fee or handle breastmilk as if it's a biohazard.
(Oh, and I'd thank you for debating this with civility.)
I imagine the fee would cover the electric costs for the separate refrigerator and the labor involved though it obviously shouldn’t be $50 a week or even close to that. Because breast milk is a body fluid it could pass on things from the mother’s body, which of course is one of the main benefits. It would be a very low risk, but when we’re dealing with children it’s better to be safe.
One question, did City Kids inform Robin of it’s policy before she signed her child up?
If they switched policies mid-stream then I do believe Robin is owed a refund and an apology. If that was always their policy, then you have to stand behind the contract you signed.
I apologize for any hint of incivility. I assure you that is definitely not my intention. This only marginally affects me because my daughter will be in Kindergarten at the start of the new school year, but I just don’t want to see her former teachers and other little friends hurt. That’s why I think the focus should on a positive such as the ballot measure outlining breast-feeding rights.
Michael,
Oh, I don't think you're being uncivil at all. That's why I made that last post, I think you're debating this quite civilly and I appreciate that.
I don't know what Robin's original agreement was, so I can't comment on that aspect of things.
I also understand that the extra fee was to cover the added cost of an extra fridge, the time it took to go to that fridge to get the milk, the cost of extra warming equipment, etc...
What I'm saying is that there is no reason for those things. The greatest majority of day cares treat bottles of breastmilk teh same way they treat bottles of formula and in doing so are following all health and safety guidelines established by the CDC and the Ohio Department of Jobs and Family Services Day Care guidelines.
So again, my question is WHY they have chosen to "burden" themselves with these extra issues. The CDC specifically states on their site that breastmilk is not a biohazard and does not need to be treated as a body fluid that can transfer blood born pathogens or HIV.
With that in mind, this is only an issue if City Kids gives kids the wrong bottle often enough for it to be a concern and as I said in a previous post, if that's the case, I'm not sure why anyone would trust their child with a center that can't read a label?
Michael:
Have you gone through CityKids reports at the DOJ and the numerous violations of codes it has, as recent as Sept/Oct. 2006. All of which are allegedly, per self reporting, corrected as of 12/18/2006.
Tell me how with all those code violations, including a failure to adequately and properly supervise children that it is a safe place for children. Or better yet, do you want a person to go put their hands all over your child or his/her toys w/o washing them after changing another baby - Oh guess what, that was observed by the person doing the inspection...Oh, and it allowed people to work there w/o having obtained the results of the criminal background checks --- what would have happened if one of those employees were a child sexual predator/offender?
And none of their violations were changed until they were caught upon inspection for them to renew their license. Oh, and if you look at previos Inspections, you will tell that they have always had numerous violations and almost always in the same lines as the ones they just corrected, so it was not a "one time" mistake.
Please, don't brag about how safe and great this place is, considering how numerous and reptitative its violations when it is Inspected.
CityKids already received money for giving that child breastmilk, from the government. Almost all child care centers receive a subsidy from the government to offset the costs of snacks and food, regardless of weather or not they provide said food.
Oh, and there is nothing wrong or illegal with a child receiving BM from anyone but his/her Mother. I personally have donated approximately 800 ounces of BM to Ohio's local Milk Bank, so there could be tons of children who have received my BM. The only medical testing that has been completed on me were basic blood tests for certain communicable diseases (HIV/Aids being one of them). It sounds like the Mother was willing to take the same type of blood test and provide proof of her negative results.
There should never be an additional charge charged for meeting the needs of any child. If a child is allergic to formula (and trust me, I know someone whose child couldn't tolerate anything but "skim breast milk" and had to create a means of making this "skim breast milk"), then that child should be accomodated. That is WHY we have anti-discriminatio laws.
Lactivist and Robin - If you want, I will be more than happy to find the Ohio legislators who were involved in drafting, promoting and passing the Ohio Public Accomodation Bill for Breastfeeding. I believe one of the LC's local to me is fairly well acquated with one of the authors.
Anonymous, please do pass along the info from the first breastfeeding bill if you could. That's certainly going to be something that both Robin and I want to push for, I just haven't had time to dig it up yet.
That said, I do want to make a point about a statement of yours...
"The only medical testing that has been completed on me were basic blood tests for certain communicable diseases (HIV/Aids being one of them). It sounds like the Mother was willing to take the same type of blood test and provide proof of her negative results."
This isn't really an accurate respresentation of the screening process that mothers go through. (I'm also a donor to the bank here in town.) There's a pretty extensive medical history taken and TONS of things exclude you from being a donor...you have to be on absolute minimim medications, be taking almost no herbal supplements, stay away from excessive caffine, from alcohol, and quite a few other things. Heck, you can't even hit the blood screen stage if you've had any type of piercing in the last year.
The blood screen does only check for a few things but that's because so many things are screened for prior to it getting to that point. The milk is also pasteurized to kill any bacteria or viruses that might be present in the milk.
I get the point that you were trying to make, but I want to be VERY clear about the stringent screening process of HMBANA milk banks.
to sshisheng and michael,
I guess ignorance is bliss for you two. You seem so set on being ignorant I don't think anything anyone says is going to change your minds. but you never know... So I will restate what everyone is trying to say...BREASTMILK IS NOT HAZARDOUS!!! It is no more hazardous than formula, wait, it's LESS hazardous considering all the complications and allergies children get from formula, not so with breastmilk. What if someone used contaminated water for your child's formula, or an unclean or unsanitized bottle, what if the formula manufactured at the factory was contaminated (THAT HAS HAPPENED plenty of times), like other's said what if the wrong brand of formula was given to your child...MUCH easier to do than a prefilled bottle of LABELED breastmilk which does not need to be removed from the bottle at any point except to go straight to the child's mouth. The issue of them charging extra money is a moot point, there is NO BASIS For this, there is not one single thing they can prove to say that breastmilk should be handled any more than formula if anything it's less. The less bm is handled the safer it is. Most precautions are to protect the BREASTMILK FROM CONTAMINATION not the other way around. Read the CDC that the previous poster mentioned. http://www.cdc.gov/breastfeeding/disease/hiv.htm
To tell us that only a stay at home mom should breastfeed IS DISCRIMINATION! Please for you own sake and ours, do your research before spouting off.
TO the blogger, thank you for posting this, I hope it brings much needed attention to this issue. I am a sahm so I would have never really known this, but that makes it no less important to me. I am going to link to this blog so others can be aware of this blatant discrimination. Thanks again.
Jennifer:
(This is the Annon poster above).
I am familiar with the screenings, but those are all "self reported", except for the blood screen done during a phone interview, the only true testing they do of the potential donnor is the blood test. But I wouldn't do any of the stuff we are not supposed to because I understand the reason's and those are just not the things I am into anyways.
I have completed a letter writing campaign to those who remain in the Senate that sponsored the bill back in 2005. The sight to get a list of Senator e-mail addresses is:
http://www.senate.state.oh.us/senators/by_name.html
The list of Senators that are still present are:
Clancy, Austria, Cates, Coughlin, Fedor, Goodman, Gardner, Ray Miller, Jacobson, Mumper, Spada, Wilson, Jr.
Clancy was the original sponsor of the bill.
Having been through the same rigamarole trying to find care for my children I can tell you the big reason. USDA feeding programs pay for formula and jarred baby food. The providers are supposed to be paid to feed breastmilk - but no one seems to know about this.
The one center I looked at made you fill out the USDA formula form even if you weren't using formula. They get a check for every child enrolled irregardless of parental income to buy junk food and if they can get it on sale guess who pockets the difference?
You are totally correct about the screenings, just wanted to make it clear to people that it does go beyond just a simple blood test. :) (I'm kinda picky about this since Prolacta has been on a campaign to discredit the safety of HMBANA milk banks...)
Anyway, THANK YOU for digging that up. Any interest in helping with a push? If so, please drop me an email... jennifer at thelactivist dot com
Hi. My name is Honey Rowland and I'm an activist also. If you would be willing to share with me what you need...I'll run with it. I'm on a lot of boards, I work with a group called Dar a Luz www.daraluznetwork.com and they're all about empowered educated decisions and supporting women in WHATEVER they choose. But, I'm the special events/fundraiser for them. Anyways, if you'd send me a link to add to my signature, some addy's to write too...whatever, I'd be happy to help and I'm pretty good at rallyin' the troops! ;) Honey
HoneyNBenNKids @ gmail.com
I just want to be clear: I never said anything bad about breast-feeding. Everything that I ever read says that it's the best possible option. My only two negative feelings about breast-feeding are:
1. When we researched breast-feeding before the birth of our children, I was repeatedly instructed it would be better if I didn't come to any meeting advocating it because I'm a male and that make the mothers uncomfortable, and
2. This issue that might cause nice people I know to be unemployed and disrupt the lives of dozens of families.
As far as City Kids goes, it’s better than many other places that we checked. Humans make mistakes. I seriously doubt there is a daycare that is 100% compliant with every rule every hour of every day. If you don’t trust it don’t use it.
Anonymous, I can’t say that I agree with sshisheng about not using bottles for breast milk. I really appreciated being able to feed and bond with my kids. Breast-milk is not hazardous. There just to be clear Breast-milk isn’t hazardous. That doesn’t mean some people want their children exposed to it. Some parents I know let their kids have sodas and others don’t. I wouldn’t say because an occasion soda could lead to heart disease and the other illnesses associated a legal campaign should be mounted to force parents to restrict their kids’ diets. Generally I’m just arguing for channeling this energy into something positive, such as the breast-milk legislation instead of calling a daycare with questions and comments directed at people who are only doing their jobs trying to watch children. It’s not like the woman answering the phone can over-rule the owner, so maybe she should be cut a break. I would also say that’s you’re right ignorance is bliss, but unfortunately I am aware of this attack on my daughter’s daycare providers. Please if you don’t like them don’t use them, but allow me the option.
I’m not even 100% sure that City Kids should charge for the breast-feeding storage. I rather err on the side of caution, though I wouldn’t be worried if my daughter was in the infant room. My main point is if you don’t like this daycare don’t use it. Consider it a boycott if it makes you feel better, but don’t deny it to anyone else. I’ve never told anyone else how to raise they child except one time when a mother was letting her little monster attack several other kids at a playground. Her, I said something to about teaching kids to not kick and hit. I expect the same courtesy. If you don’t like my choice of City Kids then don’t use them, but wouldn’t your time be better spent with your children than waging a legal campaign to destroy a valuable resource others depend on daily?
Better things: support the breast-milk banks, call your representatives about the legislation that’s needed, play a game with your kids, and in general be creative not destructive.
If someone technically savvy can snatch up the "citykidsdaycare.com" domain name and post the whole story there, I think it would let prospective parents now what they are dealing with when they look into the school. (A friend did something similar after daycare problems and then provided links to other daycares without a problematic history.)
Also, is she the first/only pumping mom? A bottle warmer is $20 tops, a mini fridge maybe $200? Seems those costs would be offset very quickly at $50/wk. Seems like a poor attempt to disguise a form of discrimination.
CLD in FL
CDL - I can purchase a dorm sized fridge, which has a freezer compartment in it (albiet small and not the best), which would be more than adequate room for a days worth of milk and one frozen baggie for back up, for around $100 or less new.
So, their total cost is approximate $120. As for ensuring proper labeling, mom can always apply an address label to the bottle in the morning and the day care would only be out the cost of ink to write on it, so less than $2 worth of pens a year.
Michael - I understand your frustration with a childcare provider you feel comfortable with. Trust me, I drive my child 30 minutes out of my way past where I need to goto work, just to give my child a provider who meets my criteria (a person not a company). But, I think a person who has been discriminated against has the right to file a lawsuit to recover damages, real and punitive, for that discrimination.
I am sorry if others get hurt in the process because the day care cannot afford to defend against or pay any damages award, but another person has suffered an injury as a result of their discriminatory practices.
How would you feel if your child went a private school and because of their neglagence in maintaining the school's elevator your child was killed or seriously injured (either temporarily or for life). Now, you want justice and decide to file a lawsuit against the school. Well, it is going to have to close its doors and go out of business because it cannot afford to defend against or pay an award. It is the same thing as above. Ok, instead of injured or killed, say the school discriminated against your child by refusing to allow your child an aide to assist him/her in using the bathroom and in other functions because they are in a wheelchair and require such assistance, because the aide is not a student and is not an employee of the school (or the school just refuses to pay for such an aide). Again, it is discrimination and the school should be held liable and accountable for such discrimination.
That is why we have anti-discrimination laws in this Country, to prevent people from being discriminated again. If a place doesn't want to close its doors, then it shouldn't be discriminating against people for any reason.
A lot of people get unjustly effected by discriminatory practices. You wouldn't believe how many EEOC complaints are filed against the US Government each year, and how much they (as in the US) pay out in defending against these lawsuits, let alone what some of these damage awards are (sometimes into the 1/2 million + range just in damage awards). Who is injured by this, us the tax payers, because we are the ones who eventually pay these costs in defendant and damage awards through our taxes.
I am a mother in Australia and when I returned to work my daycare centre had absolutly no issues whatsoever with me providing my daughter with bags of frozen breastmilk or with storing it in their freezer along with their supplies of bread and ice pops. They would warm the breastmilk as per my instructions and government regulations that they went to the trouble to source themselves and transfer it into the empty labled bottles provided by me. There was never an extra charge and I was even praised on a number of occasions for doing tis. What I did find distressing though is that in the 20 odd years of being a daycare centre I was the first mother to supply this. Jennifer and Robyn I applaud you and sincereley hope you get the results you desire and deserve.
Terri
1. When we researched breast-feeding before the birth of our children, I was repeatedly instructed it would be better if I didn't come to any meeting advocating it because I'm a male and that make the mothers uncomfortable, and
Okay I'm sorry but whoever told you that was ridiculous! There was a SAHD who fed his children pumped breastmilk that attended my nursing support group. There were over 20 mothers when most of us showed up. No-one. Not a SINGLE person objected to him being there. On the contrary, we thought it was pretty cool for a man to be involved like that. WE would talk about how nice it was and how we wished more men would be as supportive.
ALso, this is absurd. I can't believe that people are so ignorant and uneducated in this day and age. I am appalled that any childcare center would charge an extra fee for any type of dietary choice.
I'm with Christine, I think we need MORE vocal dads supporting breastfeeding, not less. I think most moms would be happy to see a dad at a breastfeeding support group or class.
In fact, some of my most supportive converstions have been with dads of nurslings.
Micheal, you said 1. When we researched breast-feeding before the birth of our children, I was repeatedly instructed it would be better if I didn't come to any meeting advocating it because I'm a male and that make the mothers uncomfortable
I am so sorry that this happened to you. That was wrong too. My husband was always welcome wherever I was, while pregnant, breastfeeding, LLL meetings, or whatever. As far as my experience is concerned, lactivists encourage the father/husband to be involved because a supportive husband/father encourages continued breastfeeding. In fact, studies have shown that women who have the support of their husbands breastfeed longer than those who don't have that support. As my husband has been 100% supportive, and I am still nursing my daughter at almost 20 months, I can say that is certainly the case for us.
Overall I think this whole situation is disgusting. I am so so very tired of children's rights being violated and parents of breastfed children having to pay (one way or another) for choosing to do what God intended us to do from the beginning. Breast is best. We hear it over and over, but in our society today, Americans are constantly being hassled over making the best choice for our children.
I think I'm moving to Norway.
In addition, a picture of my husband was posted on yahoo's website by the AP back when we held the nurse-in over Delta's removal of a bf'ing mama. Husbands are always welcome and encouraged to support their bf'ing wives.
How insane! I live in Dayton and need a bit of notice for a nurse-in, but if it works out w/ my older daughter's class schedule, I'd happily show up for a nurse-in with my toddler. Please let me know at ondrlin@iit.edu if there is one to be held!
Thank you for the heads up. I wrote an e-mail.
Regarding the dad who wants the daycare left alone: the owner CHOOSES to have these policies. He/she must deal with the fallout of their choices. I believe your energy would be better spent convincing the owner to modify the policy, than trying to convice us to not express our opinion.
I do not believe the owner is trying to protect the children. I believe the owner is trying to place barriers to breastfeeding because she is uncomfortable with it. Playing devil's advocate, if she wanted to ensure safety, there are other economical ways to accomplish this goal. A separate cup can be refilled with hot water to heat the milk. It can be run under a stream of warm water. Bottles can be encased in a ziplock bag to allow for any possible spillage.
The cost adders are designed to eliminate breastfed babies at this center - clear and simple.
um....WELL.. I hope she SUES! I am in Hamilton, OH, and just put my 2 boys in daycare here...NOT ONLY is breast milk ok here, BUT I feed them when I drop them off and feed them when I pock them up and BOTH are cloth diapered w/o needing any special paperwork AT ALL...did I mention, BOTH of my little guys are OVER 1yr of age!
I say: SUE SUE SUE, get this place PLASTERED all over EVERY TV and radio station possible!
Well, I just spoke to OUR daycare and was told that they are taught these things in their childcare classes they MUST take by state rules...(we ARE in OH) The director said, not to this extent BUT that in their "cum. diseases class" by the state, they are told that BM MUST be put in a zip lock bag immediately upon arrival and stored in a separate refrigerator . They don't remember anything about having to do anything else with it though, but say they will ck into it. It is ONE of MANY NEW rules that have JUST been placed on DCs in Ohio by the state...another one is: they can no longer wash children's dirty clothing, they MUST immediately place items in a zip lock bag to send home...
I do not live in OH however a link to this blog was posted on Parents.com in both their babies and breastfeeding forums (which is where I saw it).
After reading the blog I was rather dismayed by the daycare's choice to institute this policy. I sent an email with this link to the "marketing/public relations" email link provided on the LaLeche League website.
I urge all you ladies to forward a link to this blog to your local LLL chapter and ask for their assistance in bringing national awareness and unfavorable press to the daycare center involved.
I am going on my local radio station, Q104, tomorrow morning from 6-10am to discuss this topic. Go to www.q104.com to listen live over the internet. I have a 5 month old and I am appalled at this story.
While I agree the policy is horrendous and emails should be sent to them outlining your feelings, I do not believe that people should be calling. If I had my child in that daycare and I needed to reach them to discuss their care, all the calls could disrupt that ability. Please keep that in mind!
As someone who breast fed all of my children and who is now a grandmother, I must say that this is one of the most outrageious child practices I have ever heard. In context, it belongs in the category of strip mining, ruining the rain forest, polluting the air we breathe, dumping toxic wastes and waging war for oil.It seems as if there is an outright intolerance of and disprespect for nature. This young mother should report the care center for malpractice, since it appears they are flouting the Ohio laws and discriminating against her.
Granny L.
I found this article through an attachment parenting forum and wanted to tell you this is ridiculous. If anything is a hazardous substance it is the formula, not the bm. I blogged this right away. My son 4 now so I no longer bf. I was wondering if any lawyers have jumped on this or anyone acted upon it. I have an idea, Care2 is a petition siteI frequent and you may be able to start a petition that can ciculate worldwide. http://www.care2.com/
It's just too bad this child has to go to daycare in the first place.
i have a concern with the fact that they recommend shaking breastmilk in the Ohio Administrative Code!!!
Breastmilk should NEVER be shaken, but swirled gently. Shaking can alter the proteins in the milk (think of what happens when you put some whipping cream in a container and shake the bejeesus out of it).
When I read this I was appalled. I just emailed the facility. I live in South Dakota and my day care center does not charge extra when I bring pumped breast milk in bottles for my son or store it in a seperate refridgerator. I hope they appologize to all breastfeeding mothers and they change their policy.
Carrie Reinders
I can’t believe all the arguing about this topic! Breast milk may not be something I’d call a biohazard, but it IS a bodily fluid. I am a daycare owner and I don’t want to handle your breast milk any more than I want to handle your urine, blood, saliva, or fecal matter. It’s bad enough that we have to change diapers! LOL
The main reason I rarely take breast-fed babies is that so many of them are fussy nursers when they get their breast milk from a bottle instead of the God-intended source – a breast! This leaves them underfed, cranky, and just plain difficult to deal with.
Frankly, I have so many families on my waiting list that I can pick and choose what I want to deal - with and what I don’t! Cranky babies, who just want their mothers the whole time they’re at my facility, are going to lose out over more well-adjusted babies every time I have an open slot to fill. Yes, I know that this is not a politically correct answer and that I’m going to be flamed by every one of you leakers out there – but someone has to be honest here!
If you want to be the all-natural mother and breastfeed … more power to you! I fully support this and feel that it is exactly what is best for all babies. If you want to join the workforce and put your child in a childcare facility … well, you (and your baby, unfortunately) are going to have to make sacrifices and give up the breast. Like it or not – it’s the truth!
Wow, Honest Answer, that is the most closed minded thinking I have heard in a long time. You classify breastmilk with feces? Obviously if you have children you fed them formula and not nursed them. I can also assume then that if you drink cow's milk that you'd be okay with handling cow poop based on what you are telling me.
If you don't want to "handle" wiping saliva off a babe's chin or changing thier diaper then why the heck are you a daycare provider?
And if you are picking people off your waiting list that do not have BF'd babies over people who do then you are also discriminatory and deserved to be sued! You have preconceived notions that all BF'd babies are cranky when they do not get their milk from the boob and that just is not the truth! A LOT of BF'd babies will happily suck on a bottle. Maybe it was your "Ewww yuck, breastmilk!!" vibes that the BF babies picked up on that made them cry.
To suggest a mother stop nursing because she works?? GET A GRIP LADY! How ignorant can you be? It's people like YOU, not us lactivists, that give breastfeeding a bad name. Now, get thy self onto the internets and do some research and learn all you can about breastmilk before you get yourself sued, too.
Um... "Honest Answer"
If you don't want to change diapers don't be a daycare provider.
I'm sorry you clearly never got to experience the close bond a mother and her nursing child experience... and the joy that it is to know that you are doing what is absolutely best for you child, no matter the obstacles that you face. And let me say that based on your post and your description of babies, I'm really glad my child will not be in your care. Good for you that you get to discriminate against people due to your prejudice based on a stereotype! NICE Work! Calling people who are doing the best thing for their babies "leakers" is, frankly, disgusting, not to mention infantile.
The thing that is getting me here is... Babies are meant to drink breastmilk. THAT IS THE NORM. Feeding babies modified, chemically altered COW's milk (or soy milk etc.) should be treated as the abberation.
Honestly, I'm not too fond of getting spit up on or getting pooped on. But that is what comes with babies. I'd much rather deal with breastmilk than poop... and anyone who wouldn't make that choice seems a little odd to me.
I completely support the idea behind this post: the daycare is discriminating against BFing mothers. Charging an extra $50 for what really isn't any more work is ridiculous. What bothers me, however, is when BFing moms have to denigrate those of us who (for whatever reason) used formula. To say that using formula is "an aberration" is unnecessary and puts a wall between mothers who make different choices for different reasons. I support your choice, why do you have to throw a slur at me because of mine?
"Honest Answer," well, given your attitude towards breastmilk, I must wonder if you put on the plastic gloves whenever one of the children in your care cries. Tears are a bodily fluid too, you know. How about when one of the babies is teething - do you don the plastic gloves before wiping their slobbery chins?
Seriously - what on earth are you doing as a daycare provider with that kind of an attitude? I don't like the change poopy diapers either, but I'm not in the business of caring for babies who wear diapers and poop.
To 109 Anonymous - how sad that all you could take away from this article was that babies shouldn't be in daycare. Unless you feel like paying my mortgage, keep your thoughts on working moms to yourself.
To Honest Answer - your answer is ignorant and ridiculous. I pumped for my son while he was at daycare and there was NEVER a problem - in fact he was one of their happiest (and healthiest) babies - so no - you are dead wrong - working moms do NOT have to stop nursing if they go back to work - how sad you have such a closed mind. And like the previous poster said - if changing diapers is such a problem for you, you really may need to consider a new line of work.
Dear Pink:
I support women who want to feed their babies however they choose! I used the term aberration just as to mean "Different from normal" not "bad" or "wrong".
Feeding babies breastmilk is "normal" and it is often treated as being aberrant (or not standard or normal).
Some of the women who are the best mothers I know fed their babies formula.
I'm just really sick of being looked at like I have three heads because I'm choosing to breastfeed. For once I'd like someone to just ASSUME that women are breastfeeding, because that's the way babies were supposed to be fed!
I'm sorry if my words were misunderstood.
To “Fluffy Ewe” in message 113:
It’s not closed-minded to call breast milk a bodily fluid. It is what it is. Did yours come from somewhere other than your body, you idiot?
Of course I didn’t feed my children formula. How stupid of you to assume so! I nursed all six of my babies. I just didn’t expect other people to handle my bodily fluids and do it for me.
Yes, I drink cow’s milk. I haven’t read any reports that tell me I can get Aids from a cow. I have read reports that breast milk can easily contain the HIV virus. What does handling cow poop have to do with drinking the cow’s milk? Please try to at least put up arguments that make a modicum of sense!
As for wiping up saliva or changing the diapers of the children in my care, they aren’t breastfed and I feel it’s not very likely that they have Aids. I don’t worry about the bodily fluids of toddlers nearly as much as I do the bodily fluids of their parents. How do I know which mothers have been exposed to various illnesses through their private lifestyles. I try to screen my clients carefully, but you can’t really know who people are. I can’t know if some mother is screwing around on her husband with someone who may pass Aids or Hepatitis on to her. I do use gloves when changing diapers because it’s the sensible thing to do – and because it’s in our regulations that we are required to do so. I also try to not take children under age two now that my own are all in school - not because of these issues, but because I can do so much more with them when I am not caring for infants. I run a very active daycare. When the two-year-olds who come here aren’t potty trained (due to lazy or ignorant parents), one of the first things I do is get them potty trained. If they can’t “get it” after a reasonable period of time, I know that the parents are not working on this at home and it’s a losing battle. I terminate care at that point.
Choosing my clients carefully is not discriminatory. This is MY business. It’s in MY home, and I will decide who I want coming and going. I also don’t take dirty people, smokers, alcohol drinkers, single parents, atheists, non-Christians, people on state/county aide, and others that don’t jive with our wholesome environment. This is common sense – not discrimination. Any judge would laugh at anyone foolish enough to try to sue over this. I charge top dollar for my services and have a very long waiting list. I must be doing something right. Every kindergarten teacher in this town (and two surrounding towns) is always thrilled to have children who have spent time in my care because they are prepared for school more than other children.
As for my “preconceived notions that all breastfed babies are cranky when they do not get their milk from the boob…” This isn’t a notion; it’s a fact. I’ve cared for enough babies in my life – my own six children, nieces, nephews, babies of my friends, babies in my business, babies at my church, etc. The breastfed babies are ALWAYS crankier when they get a bottle than when the get the breast. The babies aren’t fussy because they can read my mind, you fool. They cry because they feel abandoned by their food source.
It’s not ignorant to think that mothers of infants should not work outside the home – especially if they are breastfeeding. It’s the right thing to do. I did it when all of mine were young and any good mother will do the same thing if she has her priorities straight.
Thanks for the giggle I had when you called yourself a “lactivist.” Do you feel more important when you make up a new name for yourselves? Too funny! You say potato, I say po-tah-toe … You say lactivist, I say leaker … C’mon, sing it with me now … You say tomato, I say to-mah-toe … la, la, la, la
To "Anonymous" in message 114
Your comment about me not being a daycare provider if I don’t want to change diapers is just silly. I do a ton of stuff in my daycare besides change diapers. Is that all you look for when you entrust your child to a provider – a good diaper changer?
I do usually only take children who are 24 months and older in my daycare. I find that babies make it impossible to do everything that I want to do and teach everything I want to teach. If the child isn’t potty trained when they come to me, they are within a few weeks or the contract is terminated. I do find that most of today’s parents are very lazy and clueless about how to potty train children. I know kindergarten teachers who have 5-year-olds that aren’t completely trained. How disgusting is that?
I’m not sure why my not wanting to handle someone else’s bodily fluids makes you assume that I never got to experience the close bond that a mother and her nursing child experience, I’ve had six children and nursed every single one of them for at least 12 to 18 months. I certainly do know all about what a joy it is to know that I was doing what is absolutely best for my baby. It wasn’t an obstacle for me. Funny that you should think of it as an obstacle! That tells a LOT.
As for you being glad that your child will not be in my care – Me too! LOL I’d never take someone like you as a client.
I think that I already covered enough about the fact that I am not discriminating and am not prejudiced in my last post, so I will not bother listing all that again.
Calling people "leakers" is neither disgusting nor infantile. It’s funny and it’s a term that’s been used in affectionate humor for eons (unlike the made-up term of “lactivists” which makes you sound like a milk cow!).
I couldn’t agree more with you about babies being “meant to drink breast milk. THAT IS THE NORM. Feeding babies modified, chemically altered cow's milk, (or soy milk etc.) should be treated as the aberration.” That’s why I breastfed mine. I just don’t understand mothers who expect others to handle their bodily fluids as you do. If you want to breastfeed, I am all for that. Just do it!
As for your opinion that people are “odd” who don’t want to handle your bodily fluids … what the heck is wrong with you? Can I send you a bag of my urine and see how thrilled you would be to splash it all around you, get it on your clothes, your skin, in your face ...
To “S” in message 116
No, I don’t put on the plastic gloves whenever one of the children in my care cries. Since the kids in my care aren’t’ breastfed, I am pretty confident about their HIV status.
I do wear gloves when changing their diapers or applying medicine to their gums when they are teething. This is for protection from bacteria.
Your question, “ … what on earth are you doing as a daycare provider with that kind of an attitude?” It’s simple. I am in this business because I love children. I love teaching them and caring for them. I also do it because I make a heck of a lot of money doing it. I started doing it when my own six children were young. I didn’t want to leave the house to work. I didn’t want to leave them with strangers. I nursed all six of my babies and didn’t want to have to give that up. I didn’t want to artificially pump my breasts with a machine and hand the bodily fluid over to someone else to feed to my children through a rubber nipple. God gave those children to me to care for, and I’ve done one heck of a great job at it. I charge my clients at least $25 more (per week) than any other provider that I know of in the area, and I still have a long waiting list of parents who feel that they have to work and want to put their kids in the best place possible. So, your question about what I am doing in this business- I am having a lot of fun, I am teaching young minds, I am nurturing their walk with our Lord, I am nourishing their bodies and their minds, I am here when my own children need me before and after school, and I am making a ton of money doing it.
To “Working/nursing mother” in message 117:
First of all, NO, the two DON’T mix.
Secondly, why would anyone feel like paying your mortgage? If you couldn’t pay your mortgage without working outside your home, you shouldn’t have had children – or you shouldn’t have had a mortgage. I am so sick of people like you who want others to take on their responsibilities.
You calling me “ignorant and ridiculous” is quite comical. Thanks for the giggle!
You think that there was “never a problem” when you pumped for your son, but you are the one who is “dead wrong.” If your son could speak, he’d tell you so himself. This is not the way that God intended for your son to be nourished.
I do wonder why you choose the term “working mother” to describe yourself. Clearly, your job is your priority, not your child. You really ought to start calling yourself a “part-time mother.” Or how about a “mothering worker?” Put the emphasis where it belongs – which clearly is not on mothering in your case.
Why would I consider a new line of work? I am very successful at what I do, and have been doing it for over 17 years. You, on the other hand, are not being successful as a mother. You can’t even get the basics (i.e.: feeding the little fellow) down right!
Dear honest answer:
Calling oneself a working mother does put the emphasis in the right place. Mother is the noun. It is who I am. Working is an adjective. It modifies the noun mother. Simple grammar. Just like you, we are contributing to the world... and when we come home we are good mothers to our children. I'm sorry to tell you that you don't get to decide who has kids and who doesn't... who gets to buy a house and who doesn't. Just because a woman can't afford to live on her husband's salary, doesn't mean she doesn't get to be a mother. Just because a woman doesn't have a husband doesn't mean she doesn't get to be a mother, or doesn't mean she should stay home and end up not being able to afford a home. We all get to make our choices. You get to think you are better than I am because you have MORE kids, because you stayed home with them, because you are a Christian, etc. And I get to think you are kind of obnoxious and not that good of a person, because you think you are better than everyone who thinks and does differently than you.
Man, America must be a rough place for you to live. Assuming you live here. Everyone getting to be so different and getting to flaunt it all over the place.
So here's the question. If you despise working mothers so much, why do you have so much to do with them? Why do you help them in screwing up their kids so much by not being home? The money I guess?
Also, you can't get HIV from handling saliva or breastmilk or touching someone who has it. Welcome to the 1980's.
Anonymous 114
Blogged and emailed. Thanks, Jennifer.
To Honest Answer.
I just want to make sure I am understanding you correctly. You wrote "This is not the way that God intended for your son to be nourished." and this truly offends me. I am a mother of twins in which one came home before the other. My Son was nursed at the breast for 19 months. My daughter, his twin, was bottle fed breast milk I pumped very hard for. Her father fed her while I nursed her brother. Was I wrong? Should I not have spent my time pumping and exhausting myself to give her what GOD intended? My daughter was also a very happy baby who could light up any room.
You make several assumptions about other mothers but ask us not to make any on you. Hypocrite sounds fitting. I also take offense to your comment about children not being potty trained after 2. There are man medical reasons why children might be late potty training, and while I agree parents should put more effort into it, its not a reason to discriminate against the child. Your terminating the contract is a dis-justice to the child. Its just proof that you do not want to have to put any work into your "job".
As for the topic at hand. There should not be an extra charge for a child to be fed any type of food. This daycare has a record of violations and should be carefully looked at. What happened to this woman and her child is discrimination. Another act of big business telling mothers its better to formula feed because hey, now you can save 50$ a week on daycare costs too.
Wow is all I can say. As a childcare provider myself I can't believe this. I've watched breastfeed children and never thought twice about it. I actually prefer breastfeed kids to formula because it's less work on me.
To Honest Answer:
"Choosing my clients carefully is not discriminatory. This is MY business. It’s in MY home, and I will decide who I want coming and going. I also don’t take dirty people, smokers, alcohol drinkers, single parents, atheists, non-Christians, people on state/county aide, and others that don’t jive with our wholesome environment. This is common sense – not discrimination. Any judge would laugh at anyone foolish enough to try to sue over this."
Actually someone could sue you because you do discriminate against religion. If you have a business license, it can be revoked.
Whoa, now, hold on--perhaps Honest Answer is a good mother and a good provider, maybe she's just a homophobe.
Christine: I got asked to leave a "moms" group because I was a man--some women were uncomfortable breastfeeding in front of me.
As a Mom of 3, I am sickened by this. I still breastfeed my 2 year old and will continue to do so because I can and because I know it's the best way to feed him. I guess I am just very lucky to have a great daycare provider who encouraged me from the start to breastfeed and when he wouldn't take a bottle, she used a dropper to feed him little by little. He never took a bottle, not in the hospital and not in the daycare. He started on a sippie cup at 6 months and that's how he took my breastmilk. I am also made physically ill by the ignorance and small-mindedness of Honest Answer. I would ask her if she allows blacks, jews, or fat people(yes, that one is me) in her daycare. It seems as if she discriminates against a lot of people. Yes, I used the discriminatory terminology for a reason. She is just the type of daycare "provider" I would never bring my babies to. Her tone is racist in nature. Am I the only one who notices it? I am offended by her post. I would bet she'd never dare say where she's from or what daycare she owns. Because then people would know what type of idiot they have working for them. And yes, small-minded woman, you work for them. I am a proud of my decision to continue breastfeeding while working 26 hours a week. I would have loved to have stayed home with my little guy but finances didn't dictate it. Some of us aren't able to stay home, but luckily I have a great boss who supports my breastfeeding and even gives me tips when I need them. I think he knows more about breastfeeding than your average woman does. He also allowed me to run home and nurse my little pumpkin if I needed to. Listen, it's hard enough to breastfeed in this country when all these mental midgets are telling you it's easier to bottle feed, that breast milk is for people who are too poor(yes, I've heard this one before) to buy formula, and that it's a bio-hazard. These poor little girls who are having babies are being told "Here's a bottle, here's some free formula...go to it." And then to make it even harder to nurse by being told you are going to be charged extra to be able to bring a breast milk bottle into an already under-par daycare or to be told you can't breastfeed your child if you bring them to a specific daycare, it's disgusting and pathetic.
God bless my daycare provider for being informed and supportive. She knows you can't catch AIDS from saliva, breastmilk, a hug or a kiss. You CAN catch a nasty cold from a formula-fed baby,though. Your baby's cold just won't be as bad because she's breastfed.
You should be ashamed of yourself for even responding in the way that you did, Honest. I can tell there is a lot of pent-up hostility in your tone and really, I wouldn't want my kids around that type of person. You could blow at any second. You are a nasty person. Trying to deny it would be futile. Your posts show what type of "PROVIDER" you really are. And that scares me for the kids you take care of.
honest answer -
You may not understand how being a working mother may work, but i bet the women who's children you care for do. How sad that you must live in such a hypocritcal world - if you think working moms are so bad, why do you make a living doing something that allows mom to work???
Second of all - the mortgage payment comment was not directed towards you. I have no problem paying my own mortgage, but i do have a problem with people who want to criticize working moms. These days most families need 2 incomes to make the world go round. My family has always and will always be my priority. Sorry you still are not fully understanding how the working mom things goes - but this is not the 1950's - get with the times.
As for your comment "This is not the way that God intended for your son to be nourished" - thanks, but i think God and I are on pretty good terms with me pumping for my son. And my son, who always made his preferences well known, never minded the bottle. I've been there when his dad gave him some pumped milk and his daycare providers and I do this NUTTY thing called talking, and they always joked he was one of their best eaters.
Your comment "part time mother" was clearly meant to be offensive, however, I do not know a single working mother that is any less committed to their children than the lucky mothers who can choose to stay home.
And considering you don't even know me, but have decided sheerly by the fact that I work that i am not a successful mother is a joke and amazingly closed minded. What a shame that THIS is what you really think of the mothers who's children you watch - it's too bad that we can't direct them here to see your true views.
Since your so "honest" you should go ahead and provide us with your client list so we can show them what their childcare provider REALLY thinks of them.
Back to the real issue of this thread - has any one heard any updates? I emailed the company 2 times, but have not heard a response... Can't say I'm suprised, but i was hoping someone had an update!
If you keep reading through the more recent posts here at The Lactivist, you'll see that there have been several updates.
The story has made some major media here in Central Ohio and the center eventually released a statement that basically stuck with the way things were already going.
We're now working toward getting a change in the Ohio Day Care guidelines that would make this type of discimination a violation of the Day Care requirements. If that won't work, we'll push for legislation that would keep breastfed children from being discriminated against.
"Honest Answer"
Wow! You think that by selecting ffed children that you can assume they don't have HIV? How stupid are you? Children of HIV+ mothers are almost always ffed in this country, not bfed because of the risk of passing on the disease. Sheesh!
I am appalled by the behavior of City Kids. The dc my son went to had wierd ideas about breastmilk but even they managed to feed my son just fine. My dear husband's only comment was "do they wear rubber gloves and hazmat suits too?"
Ugh!
While I don't agree with the $50 charge I do know that my child recieves great care there. She is extremely happy and well cared for there. She loves her teachers and is well loved by them. If the center were to be shut down b/c of this it would create a hardship for myself as well as my child. You have a right to be angry but how far are you willing to take it- at the expense of other innocent children. Fight the state but respect the children who receive excellent care there. Again, I completely support breast feeding but also know that losing the care provided by the Center for my child would be a huge loss. I wish I had the luxury to stay home but have no choice but to work to survive. This was the most affordable choice with the best care. Don't take that away. I had to 'dodge' the reporter set up outside the daycare with my child in my arms- she followed us to my car unrelentlessly. Is this good for our children? It was very upseting to my daughter. I support Robin and her decision but leave my child out of it.
What does handling cow poop have to do with drinking the cow’s milk?
Well, how about this:
Cow's milk contains antibiotics, hormones and a percentage of COW BLOOD even after pasteurization. The percentage of blood allowed is somewhere between2 to 5 % depending on state and country laws. Makes you wonder about some of the cattle diseases that cross species doesn't it? When they milk cows (even with the technology they have, being machines that are computerized) there is still threat of contamination from cow feces. Cows will and do defecate whenever and whenever they want and are.
So, yes cow feces has everything to do with drinking cow's milk but more so is the injections of antibiotics, growth hormones and other unnatural man made product to increase the production for profit. I would rather drink another mom's breast milk myself than drink a glass of cow's milk personally.
To those who were afraid the day care would shut down, I think the owner has control over that issue. I'm sure the e-mails and phone calls would stop if she issued a public apology, changed her center's policy to one that does not discriminate, and refunded the extra money she charged. She gets to make that decision. Maybe some of her current clients could suggest that route to her.
Why has no one addressed my concern about being followed by a reporter to my car and scaring my child? Does this issue not matter or deserve a response? You can argue about cow feces but completely ignore the reporter issue that stemmed most likely from this site and it's proponents? I think it is these kind of overzealous, overemotional responses that give any cause a bad name. You end up doing more damage than good. A mature and concise action commands more respect than a purely emotion based, immature one. Food for thought...
Anonymous 134, I'd imagine that it's because you're a little late to the game here. Most of the conversation about this happened about a month ago. Current conversation is going on in more recent posts about the subject.
Not all of my readers check every single comment of every single post every day for the rest of history. ;) I doubt it's that you're being ignored, just that they haven't seen it.
Thus, I'll address it.
Holding myself and my readers responsible for the actions of a journalist is a little unreasonable, don't you think?
We're discussing it online and I helped Robin approach Channel 10, the Columbus Dispatch and SNP papers. We pitched the story, what they do with it is outside of our control.
I'm sorry if you were harrassed, I'd very much encourage you to call the news outlet that the reporter represented and file a complaint. They have no business bothering you as you aren't the one that made the policy.
I'll also note that if you've read this full thread, you might see that both Robin and I have made it clear that any nurse-in that takes place because of this incident will NOT be held at City Kids BECAUSE there are innocent children involved here. Thus, if we have a nurse-in or a rally to support new legislation or adjustments to the Ohio Day Care guidelines, we will have them in a public location like at the State House so that we get the point across without interrupting the daily lives of the kids that attend the center.
Again, I'm sorry that you were harassed, but blaming the actions of a reporter on us is akin to stating that anyone that ever read an article about Princess Di is responsible for her death after she was chased by the press.
Honest Answer #114 & 120:
You are a discriminatory pig and a coward. Just from reading your postings I can see that you probably limit your enrollment by race as well. I dare you to post the name of your daycare. Mabey some legal action will come your way.
That's not make sense to me, an extra $50 to pay for because of Robin Neorr's daughter breastfeed.ck..ck..ck..I don't believe it.
Goonie
Baby First year
Correction for Jennifer's reference to CDC Web site:
Are special precautions needed for handling breast milk?
CDC does not list human breast milk as a body fluid for which most healthcare personnel should use special handling precautions. Occupational exposure to human breast milk has not been shown to lead to transmission of HIV or HBV infection. However, because human breast milk has been implicated in transmitting HIV from mother to infant, gloves may be worn as a precaution by health care workers who are frequently exposed to breast milk (e.g., persons working in human milk banks).
Source from : http://www.cdc.gov/breastfeeding/faq/
Interesting Anonymous. I think that's actually an edit from what it said back when I wrote the story last winter.
wow... this is so weird! I have operated a licensed facility for 18 years and have never heard of such a thing!
okay, this is a concern that should be address. But I thik that the families who have kids attending ity kids should includetheir opinion on the the quality of the daycare as well. I belive the structure of the program will speak on what type of person the owner truelly is.
The fact that they want to charge more money to this mother is outrageous, but I just wanted to mention a precaution. As a new mother and physician, I just picked my daughter up from daycare and found out that despite my labelling of her bottles carefully with her name and the date, the daycare inadvertently gave my daughter another baby's bottle this afternoon. That bottle was filled with breast milk. I just had to have an awkward conversation with the baby's mother, asking her to please allow me to pay for an HIV test for her. She pushed back a little saying she was tested while she was pregnant, but I explained that I had no idea if she could have been exposed within six weeks of that test (it was just an antibody test) or any time thereafter. She agreed, and I am lucky to belong to a big medical group and be able to arrange the testing easily. But it IS a concern. Breast milk is not a "hazardous material" per se -- but it can be if it's infected and the daycare center messes up the bottles. No excuse AT ALL for charging more, as storage most certainly DOES NOT need to be separate and warming DOES NOT need to be separate as any spills can just be cleaned up and sanitized properly without risk of contamination. But I'll be worried sick until those test results come back.
I am a child care provider and am frankly disgusted with this center's "policy". I have always promoted breast feeding and parents rights to choose how and what thier child is fed. Warming breastmilk is not a difficult task. Does this center also charge extra for wiping a babys bottom at diaper time?
I just read the initial note, not all the responses. Granted the formula is MUCH more work, and that parents should have the right to choose what their child is drinking, did you ever consider the risks for the daycare provider. What if the breastmilk contained some type of STD? They are transmitted through breastmilk. Would those leaving their milk volunteer for a test to ensure the workers safety?
Formula's alot of work, but you can't get sick from it, and it won't hurt another child (unless they have special formula needs, soy etc, which would end up with just an upset tummy) Imagine the breastmilk got mixed up and your child ingested it? I don't know, I understand the extra charge.
I know this is an old post, I just want to let you know that I have had an infant who is breastfed enrolled at CityKids for the past year. There has been no extra charges for them feeding him breastmilk.
I am definetely in favor of day-care services! it's beneficial, both for the parents and their children, who get the chance to play with other kids and be educated in a professional manner.
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